Showing posts with label Andrew Clay. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Andrew Clay. Show all posts

1 March 2026

Robin Jacob Visits Leeds

Granary Wharf, Leeds

 









Jane Lambert

As I said in Yorkshire IP Practitioners' TIPSY Night Out on 15 March 2024, TIPSY stands for The Intellectual Property Society of Yorkshire.  Every so often, it holds a dinner at the Double Tree Hilton in Leeds to which a retired or serving judge or barrister is invited to give a talk.  I try to support those dinners because the organizer, Andrew Clay, is a fellow St Andrean (see Clay in St Andrews15 April 2025, NIPC News).  

Those dinners are not cheap.  On Thursday, 26 Feb 2026, for example, attendees were charged £75 each for an indifferent 3-course dinner with wine for those of us who weren't driving and tap water for those of us who were.  To that amount I had to add the cost of driving from home to Wakefield, parking at Wakefield Westgate station and the return rail journey from Wakefield to Leeds.  Peanuts, perhaps, for the law firms and patent and trade mark agencies who sent their assistants and trainees en masse, but a fair wack for a sole practitioner, which probably explains why I am the only barrister to attend these functions.

The speaker on 26 Feb 2026 was Sir Robin Jacob, the Sir Hugh Laddie Professor of Intellectual Property Law, Director of the Institute of Brand and Innovation Law and former Lord Justice of Appeal.  He is one of the most distinguished legal scholars of our day.  I appeared before him several times when he sat in the High Court.  While arguing a case in his court was not the easiest experience of my life, I learned a lot from it.  

However, I had spent a day in his presence last November when he moderated the second day of CTC Legal's Second London IP Conference which included a session in which I spoke.  Having seen him recently, I had not intended to come to his dinner before 11 Feb 2026.  The event that changed my mind was the Supreme Court's judgment in Emotional Perception AI Ltd. v Comptroller General of Patents, Designs and Trade Marks [2026] UKSC 3.  That decision reversed nearly 20 years of case law based on the Court of Appeal's judgment in Aerotel Ltd. v Telco Holdings Ltd and others Rev 1 and Macrossan v The Comptroller General of Patents, Designs and Trade Marks [2007] BusLR 634, [2007] Bus LR 634, [2006] Info TLR 215, [2007] 1 All ER 225, [2007] RPC 7, [2006] EWCA Civ 1371 which Sir Robin had delivered.  Having written Emotional Perception AI Ltd v Comptroller in the Supreme Court 12 Feb 2026 NIPC Law and How will the Emotional Perception Case affect Inventors in the UK? 18 Feb 2026, NIPC Inventors' Club, I was looking forward to hearing what Sir Robin would have to say about the topic.

Unlike other speakers who spend the night in Leeds before returning to London, Sir Robin went home that same evening.  That left relatively little time for his talk or questions.  He started by listing the different intellectual property rights that can subsist in a product design and considering whether more than one right can subsist in a design concurrently.   He discussed the evolution of design law from King Features Syndicate Inc. v Kleeman (O. & M.) Ltd,  [1941] A.C. 417 | [1941] 2 All E.R. 403 | [1941] 5 WLUK 46 to British Leyland Motor Corp and others v Armstrong Patents Company Ltd and others 1986] AC 577, [1986] UKHL 7, [1986] FSR 221, [1986] 2 WLR 400, [1986] ECC 534, (1986) 5 Tr LR 97, [1986] 1 All ER 850, [1986] RPC 279.

When he finished his speech, he offered to take questions on design or any other topic.   Someone on our table asked Sir Robin whether he thought that Emotional Perception was correctly decided.   There was only one answer that Sir Robin could give to that question, which was "yes".   Had I been invited to ask a question, I would have asked whether there would be a new methodology for examining software-implemented inventions to replace the Aerotel approach with regard to excluded matter and the Windsurfing/Pozzoli approach on obviousness.

I also had a question on design.  When Parliament abolished the protection of functional designs by treating design documents as original artistic works through passing the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, the legislatures of other Commonwealth common law jurisdictions did the same. However, while none of them established unregistered design right on the lines of Part III of the 1988 Act as a means of protecting functional designs, many of them introduced innovation or short-term patents or utility models instead.  That option had been considered but rejected by the Whitford Committee and had been discussed in both green and white papers.  My question would have been whether we had been right to introduce a new type of intellectual property based on a prohibition of copying, and if not, whether there was a case for introducing utility models now.

About three other attendees managed to catch Andrew's eye.   One asked Sir Robin about patents for inventions made by computers.   Sir Robin suggested a solution along the lines of s.9 (3) of the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988.   Having spent the better part of £100 on bruschetta that was difficult to chew, a chunk of chicken, a cube of mash, two straggly beans and a fruit crumble washed down by tap water and a mug of coffee, I was disappointed not to have been allowed to ask a question. However, I accept that time was short and that Andrew did his best to fit in as many questions as possible.  The chap who did ask a question about Emotional Perception was very well informed about the case, and he shared some very interesting ideas and information about it with me, which was the very next best thing to putting a question to Sir Robin.

Anyone wishing to discuss this article may call me on 020 7404 5252 during UK office hours or send me a message through my contact form at any other time.

28 February 2025

The Interface between Copyright and Design Law

 

Jane Lambert

The guest of honour at yesterday's dinner meeting of The Intellectual Property Society of Yorkshire ("TIPSY") was Jonathan Moss of Hogarth Chambers.  The title of his talk was Rowing Uphill? The UK Position on Copyright in Works of Industrial Handicraft or Applied Art.  Rowing Uphill? was clearly a reference to Mr Campbell Forsyth's judgment in WaterRower (UK) Ltd v Liking Ltd. [2024] EWHC 2806 (IPEC)  in which Mr Moss represented the defendant.  That was not quite the same as the title of the advertised talk "Is copyright making a comeback for the protection of industrially produced items?” which referred to Ian Karet's judgment in Equisafety Ltd v Woof Wear Ltd [2024] EWHC 2478 (IPEC) (25 Sept 2024) as well as WaterRower but Mr Moss's talk was still jolly interesting all the same.  Coming two days after the launch of the IPO's Survey on priorities to shape UK system for protecting designs which I discussed in NIPC News yesterday the timing of Mr Moss's talk could not have been better.

Mr Moss divided his talk into three parts:

  • Part I: Cofemel, Brompton and the copyright/design interface
  • Part II: The Position following WaterRowe v Liking
  • Part III: The Future?
Cofemel referred to C-683/17 Cofemel – Sociedade de Vestuário SA v G-Star Raw CV [2020] ECDR 9, EU: C:2019:721, ECLI:EU: C:2019:721, [2019] EUECJ C-683/17 and Brompton to Case C-833/18 SI, Brompton Bicycle Ltd and another v Chedech/Get2Get [2020] ECDR 10, [2021] CEC 670, EU: C:2020:461, ECLI:EU: C:2020:461, [2021] 1 CMLR 2, [2020] FSR 36, [2020] Bus LR 1619, [2020] EUECJ C-833/18.  These are two important judgments of the Court of Justice of the European Union to which Mr Forsyth referred in WaterRower.   I should add that Mr Karet also considered those cases in Equisafety.   The "copyright/design interface" referred to the fact that some industrial designs can also be protected by artistic copyright.  Mr Moss illustrated the point with a picture of a bookcase from his study which contained items that were definitely protected by copyright such as books but also ornaments that could be protected by design law. To underscore the point he referred to art 2 (7) of the Berne Convention and art 17 of the Designs Directive (Directive 98/71/EC of the European Parliament and of the Council of 13 October 1998 on the legal protection of designs OJ L 289, 28.10.1998, p. 28–35)).  Mr Moss took us through the Court's decision in Cofemel and Brompton Bicycle.

In Part II Mr Moss took us through WaterRower which is a case that I discussed in The Trial - WaterRower v Liking on 20 Nov 2024 in NIPC Law. Before discussing Mr Forsyth's judgment he summarized Judge Hacon's judgment in Response Clothing Ltd v The Edinburgh Woollen Mill Ltd. [2020] WLR(D) 88, [2020] EWHC 148 (IPEC).  In that case, the learned judge held that the Marleasing principle could be used to make the EU test for a copyright work within the meaning of art 2 of the Information Society Directive with the test of artistic craftsmanship within the meaning of s.4 (1) (c) of the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988,  For those who want a bit more detail on the point, I wrote about Response Clothing in Copyright: Response Clothing Ltd v The Edinburgh Woollen Mill Ltd. in NIPC Law on 31 Jan 2020.  Mr Moss said that Mr Forsyth had held in WaterRower that:

  1. Artistic craftsmanship under s.4 (1) (c) CDPA could not be read in line with the Cefemel line of case law.
  2. The WaterRower was not protected as a work of artistic copyright because it was intended for commercial use and the designer did not have the necessary characteristics of an artist-craftsman.
  3. The WaterRower would have been protected under Infosoc and Cofemel.
Part III consisted of a picture of the Royal Courts of Justice and one slide which considered:
  • The possibility of future cases of pleading copyright works that fall outside the closed categories of the CDPA;
  • The test of intellectual creation as a gateway test when it comes to works of artistic craftsmanship;
  • It is still unclear what exactly is the test for artistic craftsmanship; and
  • The IPO's announcement of further consultation on the design/artistic copyright interface.
Surprisingly, there was only one question from the floor and that came from me.   As a patent had been granted for the WaterRower I asked whether Mr Moss had considered the point that Mr Justice Whitford (a former head of my previous chambers) had raised at first instance in Catnic Components Ltd. v. Hill & Smith Ltd. [1982] RPC. 183  that an applicant for a patent dedicates any copyright that may subsist in his patent drawings to the public. The answer was that the point had been considered and even raised but it was not properly developed because of the time limitations in the Intellectual Property Enterprise Court.

An additional bonus was that I was seated at a table with some very interesting companions.  The lady next to me was a Ukrainian national who had read law at one of the best law schools in Ukraine and the University of Dundee which had been a college of my alma mater until 1967.  As Andrew Clay is also a St Andrean I introduced my companion to him.  He already knew the lady's sister who was also at the dinner and whose acquaintance I subsequently made.   I invited both ladies to chambers whenever they have some spare time in London during a working day.  As my companion worked for  Womble Bond Dickinson I also introduced her to Patrick Cantrill who had once headed the intellectual property team at that firm and to Michael Harrison, Past President of the Chartered Institute of Patent Attorneys.

My only disappointment was that prices seem to have skyrocketed and standards of service seem to have nosedived at the Leeds DoubleTree Hilton.  The cost of the dinner meeting on 27 Nov 2024 was £68 and we got to hear a Lord Justice of the Court of Appeal, a cloakroom, Christmas crackers and party hats (although Mr Harrison and I were the only diners who wore them) and coffee.  Yesterday's cost £75.  We had nowhere to put our coats and above all we had no coffee.  The hotel is very convenient for Leeds mainline railway station though it is not always possible to park in or around Granary Wharf.  However, I would not object to our meetings taking place at a less expensive venue possibly in Bradford or some other city.

Nevertheless, I am very grateful to our organizer, Andrew Clay, for setting up and running TIPSY.  He has kindly agreed to speak to the St Andrews students' Law Society on 14 April 2025.  I intend to motor up to the auld grey toon that  Andrew Lang described so poignantly in Almae Matres in order to hear Andrew's talk.

Anyone wishing to discuss any of the topics referred to by Mr Moss or me should call me on 020 7404 5252 during UK office hours or send me a message through my contact form.

27 November 2024

Plausibly TIPSY

Author Mark Stevenson Licence CC BY-SA 2.0 Source Geograph Britain and Ireland
 

 
Jane Lambert

Sir Colin Birss was the guest of honour at last night's dinner meeting of The Intellectual Property Society of Yorkshire ("TIPSY") at the Double Tree by Hilton on Granary Wharf. He talked about two topics: plausibility in patent law and the Shorter Trials Scheme provided by para 2 of PD57AB—Shorter and Flexible Trials Scheme.

"Plausibility" is a hot issue in IP law right now.  It has given rise to a flurry of cases here and at the European Patent Office. Essentially, it means that a patent can be granted for an invention only if the invention works. Sir Colin explained his point by comparing a patent to a car. Just as a car needs a drive shaft to run, so a patent needs to be plausible.

Sir Colin stressed that this was not a new doctrine.  He said that it existed under the Patents Act 1949  in the requirement in s.4 (4) that a claim must be "fairly based on the matter disclosed in the specification" as well as clear and succinct.   It had been an issue in the Molnlycke litigation in the 1990s though again it was not referred to as plausibility as such.  Sir Colin talked about the English cases starting with the Supreme Court's decision in Regeneron Pharmaceuticals Inc v Kymab Ltd [2020] UKSC 27 (24 June 2020). He also mentioned the decision of the Enlarged Board of Appeal in G 0002/21 Syngenta Ltd v Sumitomo Chemical Co. Ltd 23 March 2023 which he said was also decided on the basis of fairness.

That prompted a question from me because the Board held that evidence about the invention that had been posted after the date of the patent application could be considered in an assessment of the patent's validity which strikes me as anything but fair as it would greatly extend the patentee's monopoly,  Sir Colin disagreed because the evidence would still have to relate to matter that had formed part of the original patent application.

Sir Colin explained that the Shorter Trials Scheme was intended for cases that fell just outside Section V pf CPR Part 63. Trials have to be completed within 4 days. There are special requirements for pre-action correspondence, the content and exchange of statements of case, case management and costs.   For those who want to study the topic more I wrote IPEC and the Shorter Trials Scheme Compared on 28 Feb 2022 in NIPC Law.  Sir Colin warned that the Shorter Trials Scheme was a pilot scheme and that it might be withdrawn if no one used it.  All the questions from the floor other than mine were on the Scheme.  One attendee said that he would prefer costs management to costs cap.  Another who had failed to persuade a district judge to transfer a case on copyright in type fonts from the County Court to IPEC because he thought a trial would take longer than 2 days asked whether she could have sought a transfer directly to the Shorter Trials Scheme.

I enjoyed both parts of Sir Colin's talk.  Although I have never been instructed in a matter in which plausibility has been an issue it is a topic upon which I have some knowledge.  Just over a year ago, I gave a presentation on the subject to a large audience in Birmingham.  My slides can be downloaded here and my accompanying notes are here.

According to Andrew Clay, TIPSY had a record attendance at this event.  Apparetntly over 80 turned up,  Andrew did a lot to organize and promote the dinner meeting.  Sir Colin described Andrew as a "good guy", a compliment that is well deserved.  I met a lot of old friends at the dinner and made the acquaintance of many more Yorkshire IP practitioners.  Anyone wishing to discuss this article may call me on 020 7404 5252 during UK office hours or send me a message through my contact form at all other times.

15 March 2024

Yorkshire IP Practitioners' TIPSY Night Out

Leeds Light Festival













Jane Lambert

TIPSY is an abbreviation, not an adjective.  It stands for The Intellectual Property Society of Yorkshire and it was started by my fellow St Andrean, Andrew Clay of Sonder & Clay,  I have mentioned TIPSY twice before in this publication.  The first time was when we entertained His Honour Judge Hacon to dinner (see TIPSY 10 Dec 2018).  The second was when we welcomed Mr Justice Birss as he then was just before lockdown (see TIPSY Dinner for Mr Justice Birss 28 Feb 2020).  I have attended a few more of these dinners but I have not always been inspired to write about them.

Yesterday's is worth writing about because the guest of honour was Justin Turner KC. He spoke to us about Mrs Justice Joanna Smith's decision in Getty Images (US) Inc and others v Stability AI Ltd [2023] EWHC 3090 (Ch) (1 Dec 2023) and the Supreme Court's judgment in Thaler v Comptroller General of Patents, Designs and Trade Marks [2023] UKSC 49 (20 Dec 2023).  I have a particular interest in those cases having mentioned both of them in my first newsletter. I wrote about Mrs Justice Joanna Smith's decision in Copyright and Artificial Intelligence - Getty Images (US) Inc and others v Stability AI Ltd in NIPC Law on 12 Dec 2023 and the Supreme Court's in The Supreme Court's Judgment in DABUS on 26 Dec 2023 in NIPC Law.

Justin focused on Getty and he produced a number of slides and handouts for the audience,  He began his talk by introducing us to Duncker's problem which Wikipedia describes as "a cognitive performance test, measuring the influence of functional fixedness on a participant's problem-solving capabilities." The objective is to fix and light a candle on a corkboard in a way that the candle wax won't drip onto the table below.  Each person who takes part is issued with a board, a candle, a box of drawing pins and some matches.  

He also screened an extract from a scientific paper but left it to us to guess its connection with Dubcker's problem, the concept of artificial intelligence and Mrs Justice Joanna Smith's decision not to strike out Getty's case against Stability AI.

In his discussion on DABUS Justin referred to para [52] of Lord Kitchin's judgment where he said:

"in this jurisdiction, it is not and has never been Dr Thaler's case that he was the inventor and used DABUS as a highly sophisticated tool. Had he done so, the outcome of these proceedings might well have been different."

That prompted me to ask the question: "Who is funding this and similar litigation around the world and why?"  Neither Justin nor anyone else around the room knew the answer to that conundrum.

On 31 Jan 2024, I attended an excellent introduction by Klaire Tanner to various artificial intelligence software that is available to the public and was shown what they can do.  I used one of those application to make the masthead for the second issue of my newsletter

Earlier today I was delighted to learn that Parminder Lally and one of her colleagues have accepted an invitation to speak at the Cambridge IP Law Summer School   She has drafted a lot of specifications for computer-implemented inventions and she knows a great deal about the legal issues relating to AI.  She is the author of the brAIn blog newsletter.  Her presentation last year was excellent.  I look forward to hearing again this August,

Anyone who wishes to discuss this article may call me on 020 7404 5252 during normal office hours.  At other times they can send me a message through my contact form.

28 February 2020

TIPSY Dinner for Mr Justice Birss

Author General Tire Source Wikipedia General Tire 

























Jane Lambert

Mr Justice Birss was the guest of honour at  The Intellectual Property Society of Yorkshire ("TIPSY") dinner at the DoubleTree by Hilton hotel at Granary Wharf in Leeds on 27 Feb 2020.  Once again it was organized by Mr Andrew Clay, a solicitor specializing in intellectual property law in Harrogate. The meal with its choice of three dishes for each course was excellent. I chose soup, salmon and crumble together with white and red wine, mineral water and coffee.

After dinner, Dick Waddington pf Appleyard Leeds introduced our guest and invited him to speak on the Assessment of Damages for IP Infringements.   Disarmingly the judge acknowledged that he had not chosen the most riveting topic for an after-dinner speech.  Having said that, his talk was as interesting and entertaining as any on the subject. The only hissing he received was when he mentioned his Scottish birth and Lancastrian education.  He had contemplated (but then thought better of) appearing in his old school tie which included red roses in its design. However, he revealed a Yorkshire connection in that his mother had moved to Ilkley.

The speaker began with a reminder that intellectual property infringement was a tort and that an award of damages in tort was supposed to put the injured party in the position he or she would have been had the wrong not been committed. Easy to say but not always easy to apply.  There were two qualifications to that rule
  • An account of profits which is restitutionary or perhaps fiduciary in nature is available as an alternative to damages; and
  • Damages for the misuse of confidential information is a remedy for a breach of an equitable duty rather than compensation for a tort.
Mr Justiice Birss reminded his audience of the House of Lords' decision in General Tire and Rubber Company v Firestone Tyre and Rubber Company Ltd [1976] RPC 197, [1975] 1 WLR 819, [1975] 2 All ER 173, [1975] FSR 273 which considered different ways of assessing damages.  One way was to calculate the loss of sales.  Another was to compute the royalties that would be agreed by a willing licensor and a willing licensee bargaining at arms' length,  There were however difficulties with both approaches.  Litigants were very different from parties wanting to do business with each other and there are circumstances when a claimant would have incurred losses from sales of a non-infringing item even if there had been no infringement.

The judge discussed such cases as Wrotham Park v Parkside Homes  [1974] 1 WLR 798 and Attorney General v Blake [2001] Emp LR 329, [2000] EMLR 949, [2000] UKHL 45, [2001] 1 AC 268, [2000] 4 All ER 385, [2000] 3 WLR 625, [2001] IRLR 36, [2000] 2 All ER (Comm) 487, [2001] AC 268, [2001] IRLR 37 where the object was to impose a cost on the defendant for breaching a restrictive covenant or a duty of confidence rather than delivering compensation. He also considered  Morris-Garner & Anor v One Step (Support) Ltd. [2019] AC 649, [2018] WLR(D) 260, [2018] 3 All ER 659, [2018] 1 Lloyd's Rep 495, [2018] UKSC 20, [2018] 2 All ER (Comm) 769, [2018] IRLR 661, [2018] 2 WLR 1353.

Points that the judge mentioned briefly included alternative ways of computing FRAND royalties - extrapolation or comparables - the right of a successful claimant to request disclosure of a defendant's sales so that he can make an educated choice as to damages or an account of profits, assessing damages liberally and the innumeracy of many lawyers.  Only at the very end did the judge mention the Enforcement Directive and then only in passing.

Mr Justice Birss reminded the audience that small claims track IP cases could now be brought in Leeds and other major cities outside London and he urged his audience to use them.  If there was demand for IP litigation outside London the courts would arrange for multitrack cases to be heard there.  In the Q and A that followed, one questioner asked about punitive damages in IP, another mentioned a rumour that the UK planned to withdraw from the Unified Patent Court agreement while Mr Clay speculated on a claim for a battleship fitted with a tine whistle.  I raised my hand and gesticulated wildly but Dick Waddington did not see me.

It was a very good evening and I look forward to the next one which is likely to be in June with Michael Silverleaf QC as the guest speaker.   Anyone wishing to discuss this article or damages generally may call me on 020 7404 5252 or send me a message through my contact page.

10 December 2018

TIPSY

Granary Wharf
Author Mtaylor848






















Jane Lambert

TIPSY stands for The Intellectual Property Society of Yorkshire.  It is an initiative of my fellow St Andrean, Andrew Clay, who has recently set up the specialist intellectual property law firm, Andrew Clay Legal, in Harrogate.  Before setting up that firm Mr Clay practised from the Leeds office of Squire Patton Boggs.

To launch TIPSY, Mr Clay organized a dinner at the DoubleTree by Hilton at Granary Wharf in Leeds on 15 Nov 2018 for some 80 intellectual property specialists at law firms, patent and trade mark agencies and other institutions throughout Yorkshire. I was invited as a member of the Intellectual Property Bar. So far as I could see, I was the only practising barrister there.

The guest of honour was His Honour Judge Hacon who has been the presiding judge of the Intellectual Property Enterprise Court ("IPEC") since 3 Dec 2013.  He was invited to speak to us after dinner.  When he was introduced to us we learned that Judge Hacon had been educated in Leeds which I had not known.

Judge Hacon succeeded Sir Colin Birss as the presiding judge of IPEC shortly after it had been formed.  As I explained in What does the Intellectual Property Enterprise Court mean for Litigants in the North West? 12 Oct 2013 IP Northwest. IPEC was formed to replace the Patents County Court which was abolished by paragraph 30 (3) of Schedule 9 of the Crime and Courts Act 2013. Unlike the Patents County Court IPEC is a specialist list within the Chancery Division.

The judge explained that he was assisted by Judge Melissa Clarke who usually sits at Oxford and by a number of recorders. There were also several district judges who sit in the Small Claims Track (see Small IP Claims last updated 13 Jan 2018). He described the work of IPEC and how it had evolved in the last 5 years.  When he took up his appointment he had to impose time limits on cross-examinations and submissions frequently.  He found that he had to do that much less frequently nowadays. The court was taking on more complex cases.  In answer to a question from the floor, he could see no reason why it should not entertain an Unwired Planet type of case.  Surprisingly, he said that the two-day limit on trials could be extended in suitable cases so long as the case management disciplines were observed.  In answer to a question from me, he agreed that his caseload had dropped in recent years but explained that was because other courts were managing their cases in the same way as IPEC and that there had been an increasing rate of settlement adding that was no bad thing.

The judge reminded his audience that his court (including the Small Claims Track) had a nationwide jurisdiction. He added that district judges were likely to be appointed who could hear small IP claims outside London.

After the judge's speech, I exchanged a few words with Mr Clay.  I congratulated him on his initiative and asked him about his plans for the future.  He replied that our next guest will be Geoffrey Hobbs QC and that he is expected to visit us early in the New Year.